Radius versus Diameter for Circle Functions

[John Scheffel]

I recently recieved an enhancement request to change many of the 2D circle functions to input a diameter instead of a radius. The user is annoyed that he is constantly dividing the diameter he wants by two. He is a former SolidWorks user and says it uses diameter. This made me wonder what most people would prefer, so I am posting this poll. Please vote and post any comments here.

This also made me wonder why the CoCreate products have always seemed to be more focused on the radius in circle functions. Radius makes sense for fillets, rounds, and blends, but for circles I think in terms of diameter. Could it be a throw back to the old drawing board days when you had to set the radius on your compass to draw a circle?

[May Kung]

I'm of similar mind with you on using radii for blends, fillets, etc., and diameters for cylinders and circles. It doesn't bother me that much, though, as when I do tolerance studies and query the model, I need the dimension in radius form anyway.

[gmatelich]

i voted diameter, because I have the same irritation at needing to divide by two, but if the change were implemented I may still be just as irritated, and want it changed back.

Perhaps the better solution is to leave the function alone and be able to enter in .875/2 in the commandline and have the math directly evaluated there.

Or add a several diameter based functions that are equivalent to the radius based functions, and users can set up their customization to their preference - radius, diameter, or both. I find it is not too much a stretch (in OSD geometry functions) to use diameter and radius functions in relevant situations - tho I do believe I use diameter twice as often when there's an option.

[John Scheffel]

Originally posted by gmatelich
Perhaps the better solution is to leave the function alone and be able to enter in .875/2 in the commandline and have the math directly evaluated there.

You can enter equations on the command line, but you must use LISP notation. For example.

(/ .875 2)

Not intuitive to anyone unfamiliar with LISP, but it works. I agree that it would be a nice enhancement to allow entering normal equations on the command line.

I agree that the best solution might be a toggle switch which allows the users to choose their preference. If CoCreate changes the Radius functions to Diameter, I'm sure it would upset some of their customers. Providing a toggle seems like the best way to make most people happy. Another option would be to just include separate buttons for both, but it might make the related menus and toolbars pretty long.

[Steve]

I'm used to the Pro-E world where I can specify radius OR diameter as I like. I, too, am very frustrated about having to divide every radius in half.

At a bare minimum, Solid Designer should allow me to key in algebraic expressions in for dimensional values. For example, I would not mind specifying the radius of a circle to be .125/2.

Steve

[gmatelich]

I find the lisp style calculations too tedious - you should be able enter the number/equation on the number keypad only.

To contradict myself a little (and brainstorm a little) - maybe all circular measurements would be entered as r.375 or d.75.

I think my preference would be to have separate buttons for each type. The user could choose a toggle at setup that would setup the toolbars as either predominantly radius or diameter, then we could mix and match and expand the toolbars to our personal preference there after.

[Thom Ivancso]

In both the Create 2D Circular and 2D Construction menus in OSDM there is a Crt & Dia button that lets you pick a center point and then enter in a diameter dimension. So I am not sure I understand the need for the poll or enhancement request or is it a general idea to have a diameter equivalent command for all radius input commands, if that is the case then I voted for diameter in the poll.

If anything CoCreate should move this button to the top left of the respected menus instead of in the lower right corner.

Cheers
Thom

[John Scheffel]

Although there are a few buttons in both Drafting and Modeling which allow diameter input, the circle buttons mostly prompt for a radius. For example in the Create 2D, Circular menu, the following buttons all prompt for radius.

Ctr & Rad
Fix Radius
Fix Center
2 Pos & Rad
Tan & 2 Pos
Tan by 2

Granted some of them specifically specify radius, but they could just as easily specify diameter. The Ctr & Dia button is the only one I could find that prompts for Diameter. The user who submitted this wants the option to Input Diameter for all the functions above or have equivalent options which prompt for diameter.

I like the idea of allowing input of numbers with a qualifier on the front, such as d0.25 or r0.125. It's quick and easy to type, and would probably be pretty easy to implement.

[bfisher]

I remember that this issue came up at a users conference session and generated a spirited debate. The majority there favored diameter input as a default as I recall and I am in favor of that myself. Of course, it is not hard to write customized commands that do this, but that begs the question why not rely on customization to prompt for the radius which is less frequently known? Still, John makes a good point that it would upset a lot of users to switch at this point. So although I would agree with those who favor prompting for diameter, I vote to leave it like is and provide the user with the tools to change if they like.

[pkehoe]

There is a toggle in the Settings menu for Radius/Diameter.
The enhancement request that I made was to use this toggle
to determine whether functions prompt for radius or diameter.
Currently this is used for measurement, but I see no reason
why it couldn't be used for inputing as well. That way users
could have it either way. And it makes sense that if you are
measuring using diameters that you would input the same.

Of course, having a toggle in the interface for the commands
(or separate commands) would be ideal. If there is a toggle
in the interface then the one in the Setting menu could be
used to set the default. So if you usually use diameter, you
could set that in the Settings menu. But if one time you need
to enter a radius, you change that in the dialog that one time.

[Jim McKim]

I voted for diameter, and would multiply my vote if I could. For as long as I've used OSD and ME30, I've been annoyed at having to enter radius values for operations that result in full circles. I have a thread tapping chart taped to my monitor, and it has diameter AND radius columns only because of the radius input requirement nonsense. And, as cumbersome as it is, I've even resorted to entering the division formula in LISP on occasion. I would also like the face property report for cylindrical faces to report both radius and diameter.

I would definitely NOT like to have to enter a "d" or an "r" in front of the numerical value; I use the numeric keypad and wouldn't like to have to find and hit "d" or "r" during input.

[Lim Chee Beng]

I would vote for pkehoe's idea if I'm allowed to.

[Dave Halseth]

I voted for diamter. I find it convieneint to keep a simple calculator at my desk because I find the built in OSDM calculator is pretty clumsy to use and the lisp command thing works, but it seems that it doesn't work everywhere, so I've got the calculator. That other Solid program (SolidWorks) will allow one to enter dimensions as inches or metric by adding a postfix of " or in. or mm, it is smart enough to figure it out. Seems like whatever the preset in OSDM it should be smart enough to accept a mixed postfix of r for radius d for diameter as well as " or in for inch and mm for millimeter or m for meter, etc. postfixes should be separated by a space character That way, if one bounces from computer to computer, like some people do, they can be sure of entering what they want.

[May Kung]

You already can enter dimensions in mm or in and it will correctly interpret it. At least, SD9 can do this, so I presume OSD11+ still can.

[Jim McKim]

Originally posted by May Kung
[B]You already can enter dimensions in mm or in and it will correctly interpret it. /B]

Sort of - this works in command dialog boxes, like Modify 3D or Part/Assembly Position. Doesn't work for command line input, such as you have to use for entering values for construction and geometry lines, as far as I can determine. I always get a LISP error. This is the mode where this functionality would REALLY be useful. Am I missing some way to do it?

[May Kung]

Huh. Come to think of it, I rarely enter the units because I tend not to hop between metric and inches. If there isn't a way to currently enter this at the command prompt, then I agree it's certainly something that'd be nice to have.