Broader OS Poll

[gmatelich]

I wanted to take the CoCreate Operating System poll a step farther. They asked Unix or Windows. What I would like to ask is, what would you like to use - seriously use not just pie in the sky, sure that would be fun?

[gmatelich]

I'm a little surprised at the predominance of of votes for Windows. Why did you vote for the way you did? Why didn't you vote for one of the other?

[clausb]

I'd say that the statistical basis is way too narrow to really draw reliable conclusions.

But let's assume that the results are somewhat representative - I'm still not surprised. The poll result pretty much reflects what is going on out there in the marketplace, including the CAD software market. In fact, my *guess* would be that new sales are even a little more predominantly on Windows platforms than the poll suggests.

Claus

[John Scheffel]

I voted for Windows because I want to run CoCreate applications in the same OS that I use for the majority of applications I run. I have found that the majority of people I support feel the same way, they were happy to migrate from HP-UX to Windows. Most of them had two computers, a HP-UX workstation which they used for running ME CAD applications, and a Windows PC that they used for everything else. Most of them never really learned the Unix incantations necessary to use it effectively. Many could not even do simple tasks like moving and copying files, something they could easily do in Windows. Once they moved to Windows they were able to use all the other Windows skills they already had, including copy and paste between CoCreate applications and other Windows applications. It was just easier for them to work in an OS they already knew, most would never invest the time to learn to use HP-UX as well.

There were a few people who prefered HP-UX over Windows, and who would prefer Linux if it were offered, but they are a small minority. This is sometimes due to the perception that Unix is more reliable, but is often driven by an emotional attachment to "Linux/open source" and/or hatred of "Microsoft/Bill Gates".

I used and supported ME CAD tools under HP-UX for several years. It was easier to support under HP-UX. We had a central application server and a common setup on all the workstations. None of the users had root access and few had the know how to install software, which prevented them from installing stuff which might cause problems. As a result it was more stable and much less effort to support. From a support standpoint I prefered HP-UX, but you asked what people want to use, not what they want to support ;). I know there are some CoCreate customers who still have a large HP-UX install base, but I think this is being driven by the support people, not the desire of the user population.

[May Kung]

Ideally? I'd like to run under Unix. I can run multiple things at the same time, something that's well-nigh impossible when doing a drawing update under Windows. When we had HP-UX, we had a rather unstable Windows emulator shell (forget the name) for running Windows apps. Half of us had only one system, so when the emulator went down, no email or other office-type apps for us.

The main reason we went to Windows is it was cheaper to maintain than the Unix boxes. The hardware was cheaper and everyone would have just one box to do both. From an administration standpoint, IT would only have to take care of one per person, not the two boxes which some folks had.

I miss Unix the most when I'm stuck updating a large drawing and can't even check email without the system hanging. I'm not allowed to upgrade my hardware, except for RAM, and there's a limit to how much good that will do.

I agree with John that most users prefer running under Windows. There's a comfort-level that is lacking with the Unix OS.

[clausb]

May,

have you tried lowering the priority of the SolidDesigner.exe and Annotator.exe processes (using the task manager)? This should result in much better response from other apps while drawings are calculated.

Claus

[May Kung]

Claus, I tried that in the past and ended up causing my system to crash. :( I usually need to reboot at least once a day if I'm hitting the CAD pretty hard.

Also, is this something that is doable if a user doesn't have admin rights on the station? Most of us have regular user rights on our stations.

[clausb]

May,

non-privileged users can still modify the priority of processes which they started.

I'd be interested in details about the problems you've described. Why exactly did you reboot the machine?

Claus

[May Kung]

What we've noticed is that Windows 2000 gets "clogged up," for lack of a better term, if we are loading/saving/updating large models throughout the day. As the day progresses, we get more sigsegv errors, or the occasional segmentation violation error. Move in Annotation using the Select Window starts to hang, requiring a sdkill command to clear it out. The system slows down, in spite of clearing the Undo buffer.

The only way we've found to restore the system's full speed is a full, power-off, reboot. For those of us that use the CAD a lot in a day, we'll typically do a hard reboot right around lunch time or around early afternoon.

[clausb]

May,

I'm *guessing* that over time the OSDM/Annotator combo consumes more and more virtual memory, and this is indeed a condition which can slow the whole system down. Clearing the UNDO buffer will not return any virtual memory to the system, so this alone doesn't necessarily make the system any snappier.

Invest some effort to configure the page file properly for your systems. Some hints on improving paging performance:

Create a page file partition rather than a page file on the system partition
Make sure that the page file is on a fast disk
Make sure that the disks in the system use DMA transfers.
Set the page file to a fixed size to reduce file fragmentation.
Use a page file defragmentation tool, such as the one from http://www.sysinternals.com
Choosing the right size of page file is also important, of course.


There is probably lots of good advice on this out there on the 'net. I'd be glad to hear about experience in the field with page file configuration.

If you get a SIGSEGV error message, this is usually not an indication of an instable system, except for some (rare) circumstances where the graphics driver fails. Instead, it is rather an indication that OSDM might have become slightly unstable, possibly because of previous errors or because of inconsistent data. Restarting OSDM is often a good idea in such a case. This should also return all virtual memory to the system, and after some paging activities, overall performance should be close to normal (provided that the page file isn't fragmented). Check for runaway processes after terminating OSDM. Occasionally, especially after crashes, I have seen annotator.exe processes which wouldn't die and still consumed lots of resources.

An even better idea in such a case, of course, is to report the SIGSEGV and its circumstances via CoCreate support so that we have a chance to fix those issues .-)

Claus

PS: I guess we're off topic by now - should we split the thread?

[May Kung]

Agreed on splitting the thread. I'll start a new one and respond in there.

[boomy44]

As system admin falls under my "other duties", I prefer using unix for a few reasons.

First, I've made too many employees who like to poke around with various Windows settings and crash or corrupt their system. Most people I've found are intimidated by unix so they only use they software they need to get their job done. I've actually had an staff member try and change the refresh rate of the monitor in windows without testing it first of course, and when asked what they were doing at the time, they swear "I wasn't doing anything...it just happened". I was out of town and got a message to call the office because a monitor failed and the person filling in wanted to call for service. I knew what had happened and talked the person through resetting the system. (Sorry for being long winded)

The next biggest concern is file system security. I've heard all the arguements about how good widows security has become, but people find ways around it.
Unix security is far better in my view.

Third, I've found that we get more life out of unix hardware than PC's. One average a PC's functional life in our office has been about three years, whereas I've got 7 year old systems still functioning in unix. Both types are workstation class systems, so it's not as if the PC's are cheap clones (HP Kayaks vs. 700's and B-class)

My last point is that I haven't had a version of ME10 for windows that didn't have regular "segment violation errors", although I am testing 11.60 right now and it seems a lot better. I've had many versions of ME10 running on unix and to my knowledge I've had only one "segment violation error" occur in unix. When I get a new version of ME10, I'm reluctant to install it in windows, while the same version in unix just works. At first I questioned whether it was something I was doing wrong until a programmer we had working with us started experiencing the same problems when he upgraded past version 9.0. I do have a copy of 8.7 for linux that I am planning to test.

Just my views as a sys admin!
Trevor